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Do You TALK WHITE or accused of trying to talk WHITE?
Taylor Tramell, part of the "Time 11" group of Detroit area high-school students writing for Time magazine's website, recently penned an article titled "I Don't Speak White.
- Tramell says she's not accepted by black peers because her speech is grammatically correct. She laments, "It's just hurtful to think that my generation does not believe that using proper English is the way black people should be speaking."
- Speaking about the black community, Bill Cosby once decried, "I can't even talk the way these people talk -- 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is,' 'What he drive,' 'Where he stay,' 'Where he work,' 'Who you be'... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk."
- Do you believe the "talking white" topic is as relevant today as it was 10 or 15 years ago?
- Can you speak proper English and still sound like a black person (for example, Morgan Freeman or President Obama)? Why do some black people have an issue with proper speech?
- What effect has Twitter had on kids' grammar?
- Have you ever turned someone down for a job or a date because of the way he or she spoke?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by kastababy on
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Wow -- what a way to start the day!
I'm going to answer these questions right down the line (and if you get offended, get a dictionary and/or thesaurus and look up the meaning of the words before you comment back!)
1. Yes, the "speaking white" topic is just as relevant today as it was 15 or even 20 years ago, let alone 10 years ago. I come from an educated family of Mexican and Black descent -- and learning how to speak correctly wasn't learning to do so so that I could sound white, it was so that I could sound like I had been properly educated. Perhaps the most important lesson I ever learned was to say what you mean and mean what you say, and you can't do that if you sound like you should be institutionalized or lobotomized or just plain retarded.
2. Yes -- you can still speak proper English and sound like a black person -- being able to speak grammatically correct doesn't have anything to do with sounding like you come from a certain culture -- you can incorporate slang and everyday vernacular unique to Black culture and still sound like you are well-educated. I think that some black people (and let's face it, it's a lot more than SOME that have a problem with it) that have a crab mentality toward success, education, and achievement -- because they themselves have fallen victim to low expectations and little to no ambition to better themselves, they castigate, humiliate, and ostracize anyone within their sphere of influence who aspires to better -- to such an extent in fact that they manage to kill that aspiration in them. In other words, a classic "misery loves company" approach that has come to define a whole race of people and reinforce centuries-old stereotypes that for some strange reason black people have come to embrace.
3. Twitter, just like text messaging and the computer age in general, has done nothing but erode the already poor grammar skills of children of all races, not just the grammar of black children. When a child grows up with a cell phone attatched to the ear and learns to type instead of write, as well as making social media their primary means of communication, the way that they learn to communicate (abbreviated spelling, acronyms, etc.) become the vocabulary and the language itself, not just a part of it. Do I think it needs to be dialed back significantly when it comes to our children? Absolutely. Does this mean I'm going to stop Tweeting, Facebooking, and the like? Of course not -- as you can tell by my comment, I have absolute control of the English language (and the Spanish language too, I might add!)
4. I regularly turn down people for dates because of the way they speak -- if you speak poorly, then that tells me that you not only don't care about how you present yourself to the outside world, but it's an indicator of how you will treat me and respect me. And I'm sorry if you get offended, but someone who thinks Ebonics is their first language and English is their second language is more than likely not on my intellectual level in the first place -- and let me make it perfectly clear -- if I can't converse (CONVERSATE IS NOT A WORD DAMMIT!!!) with you for 5 minutes about something more than the weather, then what else is there?
Finally, the harsh reality is that people regularly get turned down for jobs because of the way they speak, and if I were in a position to hire people in my job, I would do the exact same thing. This is because human beings are a communicative species -- we, more than any other animal in nature, set ourselves apart by how we relate to each other, and speech is the primary way we do that. If you can't be bothered to learn to communicate with me properly, how can I expect you to perform the job that I'm paying you for properly? If you can't communicate to me properly, in clear, concise, proper English that there is a problem on the job, you could potentially put yourself, your fellow employees, and your employer at risk. So absolutely -- given the chance, I'm going to hire someone who can speak proper, gramatically correct English over someone who can't every single time.
The bottom line to this whole discussion is this -- first impressions are lasting impressions -- if you don't want to be perceived as ignorant and overlooked and marginalized by society at large for being ignorant, then stop speaking like you're ignorant. Using proper English isn't sounding White at all -- but if speaking as if I don't have a lick of sense in my head means that I'm denied the chance to pursue the American Dream and labeled with every negative Black stereotype there is -- then mark me as Caucasian and proud of it!!
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Permalink Reply by TaRita on
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I've been accused of "talking white" by many people of color, but I actually see it as a compliment! I guess it's because I choose to speak and write grammatically correct, and not speaking with a lot of "double negatives"! I've been told that since I graduated from a "white school (UTK)" and like "white folks' stuff (racquetball-hockey-ice skating-skiing-opera-etc.) that I "act" white also. I totally agree with Bill Cosby's comment above relating to the speech of the kid/mother & father. It starts with the parents, and that's why we correct our daughter every time her speech is not grammatically correct. If this is instilled in her while she is still young, she will not be in an interview when she gets older saying "why ya'll ain't gone hire me for this here job?" As for turning someone down for a date because of the way he speaks, that answer is a big yes! For some reason I just couldn't see myself going out on a date with a 38 year-old man who asked me like this . . . "hey shawty--whatcho name is & where U stay at? Can I get them digits and then take your a** out for a drank?" I politely said "no thank you!" Then I was labeled as thinking that I was too good for a N****? Regardless of how I speak, I am 210% proud to being black! FYI: you can definitely speak proper English and still sound (and be) like a black person!!
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Permalink Reply by Angel J on
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I battle with this everyday, because I "talk white". I love the way that I speak, and I believe that it has opened more doors for me that might not have been opened if I possessed the stereotypical black dialect. Even though I "talk white", I am still me. My speech does not affect my personality. I am accepted as a person wherever I go. Granted, I have lost associates, and have been scandalized because "she's trying to be white", but at the end of the day I couldn't change it if I wanted to. Which brings me to the parents.
My brother and I were taught proper grammar in the home long before we entered school. "Ain't", "huh" and other "slangs" were not allowed in the house, especially with Granny. Granny's motto: "knowledge is power", so you were to speak as though you had "power" and nothing else. The parents of today need to separate proper English from what their children listen to in music or hear on the streets. Just because the song says "Ain't I" doesn't mean that is the way to speak.
To be perfectly honest, the "white man" is no longer keeping the black man down. The speech of the black man is keeping the black man down.
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Permalink Reply by JACQUELINE (JACKIE) WILSON on
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Depends on the situation I'm in. It's call adapt. Just like you have to talk one way to little kids and elderly people. Based just on the situation. You can be acused of anything.
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Permalink Reply by Tracie Johnson on
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kastababy said:Wow -- what a way to start the day!
I'm going to answer these questions right down the line (and if you get offended, get a dictionary and/or thesaurus and look up the meaning of the words before you comment back!)
1. Yes, the "speaking white" topic is just as relevant today as it was 15 or even 20 years ago, let alone 10 years ago. I come from an educated family of Mexican and Black descent -- and learning how to speak correctly wasn't learning to do so so that I could sound white, it was so that I could sound like I had been properly educated. Perhaps the most important lesson I ever learned was to say what you mean and mean what you say, and you can't do that if you sound like you should be institutionalized or lobotomized or just plain retarded.
2. Yes -- you can still speak proper English and sound like a black person -- being able to speak grammatically correct doesn't have anything to do with sounding like you come from a certain culture -- you can incorporate slang and everyday vernacular unique to Black culture and still sound like you are well-educated. I think that some black people (and let's face it, it's a lot more than SOME that have a problem with it) that have a crab mentality toward success, education, and achievement -- because they themselves have fallen victim to low expectations and little to no ambition to better themselves, they castigate, humiliate, and ostracize anyone within their sphere of influence who aspires to better -- to such an extent in fact that they manage to kill that aspiration in them. In other words, a classic "misery loves company" approach that has come to define a whole race of people and reinforce centuries-old stereotypes that for some strange reason black people have come to embrace.
3. Twitter, just like text messaging and the computer age in general, has done nothing but erode the already poor grammar skills of children of all races, not just the grammar of black children. When a child grows up with a cell phone attatched to the ear and learns to type instead of write, as well as making social media their primary means of communication, the way that they learn to communicate (abbreviated spelling, acronyms, etc.) become the vocabulary and the language itself, not just a part of it. Do I think it needs to be dialed back significantly when it comes to our children? Absolutely. Does this mean I'm going to stop Tweeting, Facebooking, and the like? Of course not -- as you can tell by my comment, I have absolute control of the English language (and the Spanish language too, I might add!)
4. I regularly turn down people for dates because of the way they speak -- if you speak poorly, then that tells me that you not only don't care about how you present yourself to the outside world, but it's an indicator of how you will treat me and respect me. And I'm sorry if you get offended, but someone who thinks Ebonics is their first language and English is their second language is more than likely not on my intellectual level in the first place -- and let me make it perfectly clear -- if I can't converse (CONVERSATE IS NOT A WORD DAMMIT!!!) with you for 5 minutes about something more than the weather, then what else is there?
Finally, the harsh reality is that people regularly get turned down for jobs because of the way they speak, and if I were in a position to hire people in my job, I would do the exact same thing. This is because human beings are a communicative species -- we, more than any other animal in nature, set ourselves apart by how we relate to each other, and speech is the primary way we do that. If you can't be bothered to learn to communicate with me properly, how can I expect you to perform the job that I'm paying you for properly? If you can't communicate to me properly, in clear, concise, proper English that there is a problem on the job, you could potentially put yourself, your fellow employees, and your employer at risk. So absolutely -- given the chance, I'm going to hire someone who can speak proper, gramatically correct English over someone who can't every single time.
The bottom line to this whole discussion is this -- first impressions are lasting impressions -- if you don't want to be perceived as ignorant and overlooked and marginalized by society at large for being ignorant, then stop speaking like you're ignorant. Using proper English isn't sounding White at all -- but if speaking as if I don't have a lick of sense in my head means that I'm denied the chance to pursue the American Dream and labeled with every negative Black stereotype there is -- then mark me as Caucasian and proud of it!!
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